Richard III Research and Discussion Archive

Happy New Year

2018-12-31 16:02:56
ricard1an

Happy New Year everyone. Looking forward to more fascinating discussions in 2019.


Mary

Re: Happy New Year

2019-01-01 14:13:01
b.eileen25
A very Happy New Year to you all! After a rather rubbish year I'm hoping for a better 2019. On wards and upwards...!

Re: Happy New Year

2019-01-01 15:11:22
A J Hibbard
Happy New Year from me too.
To start us off for the new year, here's a question.
I've just received Livia Visser-Fuchs new book History as Pastime Jean de Wavrin and His Collection of Chronicles of England.
Since I'm working right now on what Richard was up to in 1471, that's what I looked at first. She wrote that on 12-14 February, "Richard of Gloucester rode from Bruges to Lille, to visit his sister, before travelling north with her as far as Ghent. Nothing else is known about the visit... "

This visit (without the approximately 70 km ride to Ghent) is also mentioned in Vander Linden, Herman, Itinéraires de Charles, Duc de Bourgogne, Marguerite d`York et Marie de Bourgogne (1467-1477); 1936.
Le duc de Gloucester, frère de Marguerite d'York, vient voir sa sSur à Lille.

Just curious if anyone has any ideas or information about what Richard may have been up to, was it merely a social call?

In another series of articles I read lately there is a hint that he could have used his Office of Admiral as a way of arranging the transport of the men he is supposed to have brought with him to Edward in Flanders.
A J

On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 8:13 AM cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:
 

A very Happy New Year to you all! After a rather rubbish year I'm hoping for a better 2019. On wards and upwards...!

Re: Happy New Year

2019-01-01 15:44:44
Pamela Bain
And from me! Thank you all for the reasoned, researched and well written emails!
On Jan 1, 2019, at 9:14 AM, A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... [] <> wrote:

Happy New Year from me too.
To start us off for the new year, here's a question.
I've just received Livia Visser-Fuchs new book History as Pastime Jean de Wavrin and His Collection of Chronicles of England.
Since I'm working right now on what Richard was up to in 1471, that's what I looked at first. She wrote that on 12-14 February, "Richard of Gloucester rode from Bruges to Lille, to visit his sister, before travelling north with her as far as Ghent. Nothing else is known about the visit... "

This visit (without the approximately 70 km ride to Ghent) is also mentioned in Vander Linden, Herman, Itinéraires de Charles, Duc de Bourgogne, Marguerite d`York et Marie de Bourgogne (1467-1477); 1936.
Le duc de Gloucester, frère de Marguerite d'York, vient voir sa sSur à Lille.

Just curious if anyone has any ideas or information about what Richard may have been up to, was it merely a social call?

In another series of articles I read lately there is a hint that he could have used his Office of Admiral as a way of arranging the transport of the men he is supposed to have brought with him to Edward in Flanders.
A J

On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 8:13 AM cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:

A very Happy New Year to you all! After a rather rubbish year I'm hoping for a better 2019. On wards and upwards...!

Re: Happy New Year

2019-01-01 18:08:26
Hilary Jones
Indeed Eileen, 2018's not been 'a year of undiluted pleasure' chez Jones! As you say onwards and upwards and a Happy New Year to you all. H
On Tuesday, 1 January 2019, 14:13:05 GMT, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:

A very Happy New Year to you all! After a rather rubbish year I'm hoping for a better 2019. On wards and upwards...!

Re: Happy New Year

2019-01-01 19:47:22
Nicholas Brown
And Happy New Year from me too... Nico


On Tuesday, 1 January 2019, 18:08:34 GMT, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@... [] <> wrote:

Indeed Eileen, 2018's not been 'a year of undiluted pleasure' chez Jones! As you say onwards and upwards and a Happy New Year to you all. H
On Tuesday, 1 January 2019, 14:13:05 GMT, cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:

A very Happy New Year to you all! After a rather rubbish year I'm hoping for a better 2019. On wards and upwards...!

Re: Happy New Year

2019-01-03 02:11:58
justcarol67
A. J. wrote:

"Since I'm working right now on what Richard was up to in 1471, that's what I looked at first. She wrote that on 12-14 February, "Richard of Gloucester rode from Bruges to Lille, to visit his sister, before travelling north with her as far as Ghent. Nothing else is known about the visit... "

"This visit (without the approximately 70 km ride to Ghent) is also mentioned in Vander Linden, Herman, Itinéraires de Charles, Duc de Bourgogne, Marguerite d`York et Marie de Bourgogne (1467-1477); 1936.
Le duc de Gloucester, frère de Marguerite d'York, vient voir sa sSur à Lille.

"Just curious if anyone has any ideas or information about what Richard may have been up to, was it merely a social call?"

Carol responds:

Probably something to do with George. Together, the family helped to get him back into the fold in time to fight at Barnet about two months later.

Carol

Re: Happy New Year

2019-01-03 03:58:51
A J Hibbard
I'm wondering if Richard was involved in organizing for the return to England. I'm also beginning to read an article in an older Ricardian to see what we know about the composition of the army that crossed from Flanders to England since 2 websites insist that Edward returned at the head of an army of Burgundian mercenaries. The Arrivall says that there were 2000 men (there were more by the time of Barnet, and even more for Tewkesbury). There are hints in some records that men did come to Edward in exile: this includes a comment in a continental chronicle that Richard had arrived later than Edward & brought men with him (I can't help wondering if he had used his authority as Admiral to facilitate that). Also some information about a ship purchased by Edward that "she was sailed by her master across to the King the Low Countries during his exile there."

Whether or not the army that returned with Edward was mostly mercenaries (I suppose financed by Duke Charles' well-known grant to Edward) or English, there must have been a great deal of action required to equip them. The campaign in 1475 into France required the better part of a year to manufacture & stockpile the necessary weaponry.
All in all, I'm inclined to believe that there would have been a fair amount of useful work for Richard to attend to during his time in exile.
In a tangential comment, I'm pleased to see that in the last few years there have been several articles about Richard as Constable and as Admiral. After more than 500 years, it does seem as if a few scholars are beginning to look beyond the "Princes in the Tower."

A J

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 8:12 PM justcarol67@... [] <> wrote:
 

A. J. wrote:


"Since I'm working right now on what Richard was up to in 1471, that's what I looked at first. She wrote that on 12-14 February, "Richard of Gloucester rode from Bruges to Lille, to visit his sister, before travelling north with her as far as Ghent. Nothing else is known about the visit... "

"This visit (without the approximately 70 km ride to Ghent) is also mentioned in Vander Linden, Herman, Itinéraires de Charles, Duc de Bourgogne, Marguerite d`York et Marie de Bourgogne (1467-1477); 1936.
Le duc de Gloucester, frère de Marguerite d'York, vient voir sa sSur à Lille.

"Just curious if anyone has any ideas or information about what Richard may have been up to, was it merely a social call?"

Carol responds:

Probably something to do with George. Together, the family helped to get him back into the fold in time to fight at Barnet about two months later.

Carol

Re: Happy New Year

2019-01-04 12:50:52
ricard1an
I think you are right AJ. They couldn't just turn up at a port and board ships. It would have to have been organised previously and who better than Richard to do that.
Mary

Re: Happy New Year

2019-01-04 15:36:43
Hilary Jones
Hi AJ sorry to be so long in replying.
According to Christine Weightman's biography of Margaret, she was active in raising support for the re-invasion of England and had several meetings with Richard and Edward, including Richard's two nights' stay in February of 1471. On 24 February, 5 Dutch towns had rasied 6,000 florins as a loan to 'my gracious Lady of Burgundy and the King Edward of England' if her husband Charles would approve. She was also contributing three or four ships. Charles was as usual away fighting the French.
So yes, Richard's post as Admiral would be useful to say the least.
Hope this helps! H
On Tuesday, 1 January 2019, 15:14:08 GMT, A J Hibbard ajhibbard@... [] <> wrote:

Happy New Year from me too.
To start us off for the new year, here's a question.
I've just received Livia Visser-Fuchs new book History as Pastime Jean de Wavrin and His Collection of Chronicles of England.
Since I'm working right now on what Richard was up to in 1471, that's what I looked at first. She wrote that on 12-14 February, "Richard of Gloucester rode from Bruges to Lille, to visit his sister, before travelling north with her as far as Ghent. Nothing else is known about the visit... "

This visit (without the approximately 70 km ride to Ghent) is also mentioned in Vander Linden, Herman, Itinéraires de Charles, Duc de Bourgogne, Marguerite d`York et Marie de Bourgogne (1467-1477); 1936.rry to be so long in replying
Le duc de Gloucester, frère de Marguerite d'York, vient voir sa sSur à Lille.

Just curious if anyone has any ideas or information about what Richard may have been up to, was it merely a social call?

In another series of articles I read lately there is a hint that he could have used his Office of Admiral as a way of arranging the transport of the men he is supposed to have brought with him to Edward in Flanders.
A J

On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 8:13 AM cherryripe.eileenb@... [] <> wrote:

A very Happy New Year to you all! After a rather rubbish year I'm hoping for a better 2019. On wards and upwards...!